Realistic Solution to Palestinian-Isreali Conflict

a reply to: chr0naut

We need to play roles to reach a solution. So far you won't be called Pro-Life unless you go to Mexico. You will get no water or electricity. Go to Mexico so that we will call you an innocent pro life citizen instead of dying at a bombing and we will then call you a human shield.

a reply to: chr0naut

I have. Went to Bible camp and had devotions twice a day growing up.
I had awards as a kid for most Bible Memorization. LMAO.
I know the book.
I just don't believe it anymore.
What I meant to imply was that IRL the concepts espoused by the AntiChrist (such as the one in the Left Behind series)
if he wasn't an evil spawn of the devil hiding behind those ideas for carnage, would probably actually solve a lot of problems. Perhaps I should've stated that explicitly.

Seems that if it wasn't for different religions clashing, most of their disputes would go away overnight.

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: chr0naut

We need to play roles to reach a solution. So far you won't be called Pro-Life unless you go to Mexico. You will get no water or electricity. Go to Mexico so that we will call you an innocent pro life citizen instead of dying at a bombing and we will then call you a human shield.

The solution is to not play the game.

At least, not in the way and by the rules that it has been played before.

Maybe armies, no matter how well motivated, have NEVER been peacekeepers?

So we have to step up, in the name of human decency and for our own self-interest (because these things escalate) and openly deride the brinkmanship that leads to war, because it cannot work.

a reply to: chr0naut

100%.
Cheering on two schizo-drunkards with AK-47s as they scream at each other in the street next to a hospital,
and throwing boxes of bullets at them, is the opposite of a solution, and that's what many are doing.
I agree,
and not enough people are saying it.

a reply to: chr0naut

As an Afghan army, we agree to peace. You can keep that little small piece of land left for you American you're living in. We are happy, we won't fight, we will even build a wall so that no more anti-peace Americans would come to our stolen lands and throw rocks at us.

Conclusion (Solution 1): Accept the status-quo and reduce America from 50 states to perhaps quarter of a single state for Americans to live in, so that the world would call us Pro-Life.

originally posted by: TheValeyard
a reply to: chr0naut

I have. Went to Bible camp and had devotions twice a day growing up.
I had awards as a kid for most Bible Memorization. LMAO.
I know the book.
I just don't believe it anymore.
What I meant to imply was that IRL the concepts espoused by the AntiChrist (such as the one in the Left Behind series)
if he wasn't an evil spawn of the devil hiding behind those ideas for carnage, would probably actually solve a lot of problems. Perhaps I should've stated that explicitly.

Seems that if it wasn't for different religions clashing, most of their disputes would go away overnight.

I don't think that religion plays as big a part as greed for resources and power. Religion just provides an excuse to hook in a few extra radicals.

If all Jews were killed, it wouldn't advance the faith of Muslims. If all Muslims were killed it wouldn't make the Jews more religious (they are quite secular, as are modern 'Christian' groups). Religions are only a point of difference.

a reply to: chr0naut

Well, I remain skeptical of that, but I hope you're right.

Now let's a add a historical context in the name of argument

According to Avneri, Jews held 1,850,000 dunams (1,850 km2) of land in 1947, or 6.94% of the total.
source:Avneri, Aryeh L. (1984). The Claim of Dispossession: Jewish Land-Settlement and the Arabs, 1878–1948., p. 224 Transaction Publishers. ISBN 978-0-87855-964-0.


Stein gives the estimate of 2,000,000 dunams (2,000 km2) as of May 1948, or 7.51% of the total
source: Stein, Kenneth W. (1987) [Original in 1984]. The Land Question in Palestine, 1917–1939., pp. 3–4, 247 University of North Carolina Press. ISBN 978-0-8078-4178-5.

Around less than 10% of the land sold doesn't give anyone right to kick Americans from USA, call it Afghan land.



after the 1948, Israel passed a series of laws called The 'Absentees Property Law' which allowed Israel to takeover arab-owned land.

As a result, two million dunams were confiscated and given to the custodian, who later transferred the land to the development authority. This law created the novel citizenship category of "present absentees" (nifkadim nohahim), persons present at the time but considered absent for the purpose of the law. These Israeli Arabs enjoyed all civil rights-including the right to vote in the Knesset elections-except one: the right to use and dispose of their property. About 30,000-35,000 Palestinians became "present absentees".[27]

According to Simha Flapan,[28] "a detailed account of exactly how abandoned Arab property assisted in the absorption of the new immigrants was prepared by Joseph Schechtman":


It is difficult to overestimate the tremendous role this lot of abandoned Arab property has played in the settlement of hundreds of thousands of Jewish immigrants who have reached Israel since the proclamation of the state in May 1948. Forty-seven new rural settlements established on the sites of abandoned Arab villages had by October 1949 already absorbed 25,255 new immigrants. By the spring of 1950 over 1 million dunams had been leased by the custodian to Jewish settlements and individual farmers for the raising of grain crops.

Large tracts of land belonging to Arab absentees have also been leased to Jewish settlers, old and new, for the raising of vegetables. In the south alone, 15,000 dunams of vineyards and fruit trees have been leased to cooperative settlements; a similar area has been rented by the Yemenites Association, the Farmers Association, and the Soldiers Settlement and Rehabilitation Board. This has saved the Jewish Agency and the government millions of dollars. While the average cost of establishing an immigrant family in a new settlement was from $7,500 to $9,000, the cost in abandoned Arab villages did not exceed $1,500 ($750 for building repairs and $750 for livestock and equipment).

Abandoned Arab dwellings in towns have also not remained empty. By the end of July 1948, 170,000 people, notably new immigrants and ex-soldiers, in addition to about 40,000 former tenants, both Jewish and Arab, had been housed in premises under the custodian's control; and 7,000 shops, workshops and stores were sublet to new arrivals. The existence of these Arab houses-vacant and ready for occupation-has, to a large extent, solved the greatest immediate problem which faced the Israeli authorities in the absorption of immigrants. It also considerably relieved the financial burden of absorption



So,yes if you define steal as ( take without consent ) Israel did steal land from the Palestinian arabs / Israeli-Palestinians.

In the same source, we have this:


The Custodian of Absentee Property does not choose to discuss politics. But when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants — an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property — Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War).


which might explain the origin of the confusion, There are 4 separate facts which were corrupted to result in your claim:


Israel took 73% of what was mandatory Palestine - true
Jews privately and collectively owned a small part of the land (6-9%)- true
Israel stole land from the arab land owners - true ( under a certain definition of stealing)
the land stolen from the arab land owners is 70% of the Israeli land - disputed (The Jewish Virtual Library, estimates that Custodial and Absentee land comprises 12% of Israel's total territory).

My Dads great uncle sold land in Israel in the late 1800s on behalf of the Ottoman Empire without getting permission. Jews weren't allowed to own land. Muslims treated them like dogs. There was a Muslim uprising that got quickly put down by the Sultan, Hamid.

God drew the borders. Palestine was a name used by the Romans- Land of the Philistines. It was just an insult.

The true borders of Israel are massive and run deep into neighboring countries. Jordan, Gaza, Iraq, Syria. You will see some big changes in the years to come. Israel will not be destroyed, and genocided out of existence like the Islamic countries believe. They will get destroyed instead. Then you will know that YHWH is God.

a reply to: Mawdano

Still, the legal definition of absentee property is that no one's using it or upkeeping it, and you have not contended that the land was indeed being used,
so what did Palestinians need it for?
What was the purpose the land served to them?

a reply to: TheValeyard


At that point in time, there were fights and people running away for their lives. They wanted to return back to their properties when the fight is over, but they couldn't.

a reply to: visitedbythem

I'm sorry to hear your story. Old empires were not accepting diversity as we today. I hope life would get better for everyone.

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: TheValeyard


At that point in time, there were fights and people running away for their lives. They wanted to return back to their properties when the fight is over, but they couldn't.

Okay okay, here's another solution then: True reparations! I mean everyone.
Check this: Palestine sues Israel, Israel sues the UN nations,
Russia and China and Iraq sue USA for economic damages, black americans and Native Americans also sue the USA, USA sues England for emotional damages, and England sues the French for inspiring those gawdawful capri pants and knee high socks, then the French sue Greece and Macedonia for inspiring Napoleon and marring their good name...
and truthfully, I think every human on the planet should sue the Younger Dryas Climate Event and plate tectonics.
I for one want my land bridge back.


EDIT: Was initially a joke, but on reread, seems like a great way to free up locked funds and spur the global economy.
Let's do it!

One policy Australia introduced to help with the conflicts between the colonists and natives was the 'stolen generation'. In this policy, a lot of kids from the natives was taken and put with families of the colonists. It is still a bit of a stain on the nation, but not as bad as some of the mascaras that took place.

This policy is not perfect with a lot of dramas in background. Overall it did prove that the natives are not animals when given an education and part of a loving family. After this the natives did get the right to vote and provide an important role in society.

Sounds like there are a lot of orphaned kids in Gaza these days.

a reply to: kwaka

Interesting solution, I don't know if this is acceptable to all conflicting parties.

I have found interesting historical information from the bible

a reply to: Mawdano

historical information from the bible

a whole pile of rofl

and it still doesn't seem enough

I have found also 40 beheaded Palestinian Netanyahu and Biden forgot to tell us about

a reply to: Mawdano

Based on your scenario, I would take Afghanistan's offer to leave my home and neighborhood since the American Resistance Fighters (terrorists) have already taken both of them over and are holding me hostage and threatening me with death if I try to leave it. Since the terrorists only plan on using me as a shield and a casualty towards their cause anyway, I would say "good riddance".

a reply to: Deetermined2

Very good, assuming you have freedom of choice. No one took you as hostage, but if you didn't leave, you will be called Human Shield. What would you do, defend your home land or run away?