Israeli strikes on southern Gaza city of Rafah kill 22, mostly children, as US advances aid package

a reply to: Daughter2v2

Why do you think they are stopping food and water? There is so little they are letting in most people are going to die soon. Do you think it's because Hamas will use water for water bomb ballons or food will be thrown over the wall? Food and water is stopped to physically torture and kill.

Thats not a recent thing.. go and have a look at wikileaks. They try and keep the palastinlines below the poverty line at all times..pretty much the same way the whites treated the Africans in south Africa.

a reply to: purplemer

If they are supposedly out of food and water, how do they keep growing ammunition, weapons and RPGs?

….And those fancy smartphones with internet access that they use for their propaganda.

Without the eradication of Hamas, we will be arguing this again in a few years. Same stuff same situation. Different year.

a reply to: AlongCameaSpider

Without the eradication of Hamas, we will be arguing this again in a few years. Same stuff same situation. Different year.

yep, pete and repeat

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Daughter2v2

Why do you think they are stopping food and water? There is so little they are letting in most people are going to die soon. Do you think it's because Hamas will use water for water bomb ballons or food will be thrown over the wall? Food and water is stopped to physically torture and kill.

Thats not a recent thing.. go and have a look at wikileaks. They try and keep the palastinlines below the poverty line at all times..pretty much the same way the whites treated the Africans in south Africa.

They actually had a better standard of living than many other Arab countries in the area.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Lazy88

lazy88

For all your talk.. 88 is nazi code for HH...

Found this online

Neo-Nazis use the number 88 as an abbreviation for the Nazi salute Heil Hitler.[11] The letter H is eighth in the alphabet, whereby 88 becomes HH.[12]

en.wikipedia.org...(number)

a reply to: purplemer

Killing 22 people, mostly kids is a serious war crime and crime. One of the many Israel has committed.

originally posted by: dothedew
Personally, I love seeing these "My sources are always correct and yours are always lying, no matter what we each cite" nonsensical $h!t slinging contests.

Both sides are horrible people, people are horrible for only defending their preferred side, the lengths you go to justify your stances are appalling, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Anyway, please continue. It's hilarious and I just sat down with my lunch.

There are some people in these threads who defend Israel in their ethnic cleansing campaign and they also give full support to Israel to kill as many civilians as possible based on the existence of Hamas.

Most posters are reasonable and don't want civilians to be killed at both sides.

originally posted by: SchrodingersRat

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: cherokeetroy

I'm well aware of the Diana theories. Not heard of any blaming Zionists, though.

Zionists killed Diana?

lol!

"Did dinosaurs build Stonehenge?
Probably not..."

- Monty Python

I don't know what this conversation is and how it has evolved but Israel has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. We don't know the exact number but there is no dispute on the high number of people who Israel has killed in Gaza. Even the Blinken has admitted it.

www.cnn.com...

America’s top diplomat says ‘far too many Palestinians have been killed.’

originally posted by: Vermilion
a reply to: purplemer

If they are supposedly out of food and water, how do they keep growing ammunition, weapons and RPGs?

….And those fancy smartphones with internet access that they use for their propaganda.

This is from Wikipedia. I am sure Wikipedia is not governed by Hamas or Iran. But they also give an estimate on the number of civilians killed in Gaza. They say around 70% of all people who have been killed are civilians. And it makes sense as 22 people have been killed in just one incident, with most of them to be kids.

So unless we line in a great conspiracy against Israel something else must be going on. You want to guess what this is?

en.wikipedia.org...

The vast majority of casualties have been in the Gaza Strip: over 34,262 have been killed, 70% of them are women and minors

a reply to: Taferson

You are spamming the forum with false information.
I don't know what idiots are giving you stars for that.
Shame on them. All of you should educate yourselves.

originally posted by: Taferson
This is from Wikipedia. I am sure Wikipedia is not governed by Hamas or Iran.

No ... their entries are written by useful idiots like you. They are wrong.

Abraham Wyner, a professor of Statistics and Data Science at the Wharton School, has done an analysis on the claims by Hamas about the death totals. And his conclusion is that the numbers are bogus.

Hamas’ Gaza death toll stats are pure fiction

Wyner’s critique is damning: The daily reported death tolls rise in a straight line, about 270 a day — which makes zero sense, since in any war, some days see far greater fighting and bombing than others.

Plus there’s no correlation between the reported numbers of children and women slain each day (when most kids are surely near their mothers) or between the numbers of women and men.

Also, the ministry claims that 70% of the dead are women and children, while Hamas admits to losing 6,000 of its (male) combatants — which would mean that almost no male civilians have been killed.

The obvious conclusion is that the ministry is just (clumsily) making it all up. It’s definitely not presenting real info gathered from across Gaza.

The graphs and the math are at the link -

Hamas's Gaza death toll is exaggerated or faked, statistics expert claims

A professor of Statistics and Data Science at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, Wyner provided a detailed analysis of the data from the Gaza Health Ministry, which showed that they had, at the very minimum, been doctored – and at worst, completely faked.

Wyner first tackles the total reported deaths, which he shows climbed by 270 plus or minus about 15% every day. This, he says, is statistically impossible: "There should be days with twice the average or more and others with half or less." "The graph of total deaths by date is increasing with almost metronomical linearity," he says – meaning at a regular rate, like a metronome.

"Most likely, the Hamas ministry settled on a daily total arbitrarily," he concludes. "We know this because the daily totals increase too consistently to be real. Then they assigned about 70% of the total to be women and children, splitting that amount randomly from day to day. Then they in-filled the number of men as set by the predetermined total. This explains all the data observed."

He also highlights that by Hamas's own admission, 6,000 Hamas fighters have been killed, which if combined with Hamas's data on deaths, shows that 20% of the total deaths are combatant while 70% are women and children. This implies that "Israel is somehow not killing noncombatant men, or else Hamas is claiming that almost all the men in Gaza are Hamas fighters."

In conclusion, he says, "The truth can’t yet be known and probably never will be. The total civilian casualty count is likely to be extremely overstated.

How Hamas "Gaza Health Ministry" Fakes Casualty Numbers

Here’s the problem with this data: The numbers are not real. That much is obvious to anyone who understands how naturally occurring numbers work. The casualties are not overwhelmingly women and children, and the majority may be Hamas fighters.

Not only do official Palestinian death counts fail to differentiate soldiers from children, but Hamas also blames all deaths on Israel even if caused by Hamas’ own misfired rockets, accidental explosions, deliberate killings, or internal battles. One group of researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health compared Hamas reports to data on UNRWA workers. They argued that because the death rates were approximately similar, Hamas’ numbers must not be inflated. But their argument relied on a crucial and unverified assumption: that UNRWA workers are not disproportionately more likely to be killed than the general population. That premise exploded when it was uncovered that a sizable fraction of UNRWA workers are affiliated with Hamas. Some were even exposed as having participated in the Oct. 7 massacre itself.

The truth can’t yet be known and probably never will be. The total civilian casualty count is likely to be extremely overstated. Israel estimates that at least 12,000 fighters have been killed. If that number proves to be even reasonably accurate, then the ratio of noncombatant casualties to combatants is remarkably low: at most 1.4 to 1 and perhaps as low as 1 to 1. By historical standards of urban warfare, where combatants are embedded above and below into civilian population centers, this is a remarkable and successful effort to prevent unnecessary loss of life while fighting an implacable enemy that protects itself with civilians.

originally posted by: Taferson

originally posted by: dothedew
Personally, I love seeing these "My sources are always correct and yours are always lying, no matter what we each cite" nonsensical $h!t slinging contests.

Both sides are horrible people, people are horrible for only defending their preferred side, the lengths you go to justify your stances are appalling, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Anyway, please continue. It's hilarious and I just sat down with my lunch.

There are some people in these threads who defend Israel in their ethnic cleansing campaign and they also give full support to Israel to kill as many civilians as possible based on the existence of Hamas.

Most posters are reasonable and don't want civilians to be killed at both sides.

There is no ethnic cleansing. Isreal could have wiped the population of Gaza off the map by now.


The deaths are from Hamas using human shields and lying about the number of dead.


If Hamas that sanctioned the murders, rape, torture, kidnapping of civilians on Oct 7 surrendered, many people would be a live.

Hamas uses human shields and started a bloody way they couldn’t win.

This is on Hamas. Stop making excuses.

Now Hamas admits that 1/3 of the numbers they have given out as 'dead civilians' can't be verified in any way and they may even be made up (no surprise there).

Federation for the Defense of Democracies

The Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Health said on April 6 that it had “incomplete data” for 11,371 of the 33,091 Palestinian fatalities it claims to have documented. In a statistical report, the ministry notes that it considers an individual record to be incomplete if it is missing any of the following key data points: identity number, full name, date of birth, or date of death. The health ministry also released a report on April 3 that acknowledged the presence of incomplete data but did not define what it meant by “incomplete.” In that earlier report, the ministry acknowledged the incompleteness of 12,263 records. It is unclear why, after just three more days, the number fell to 11,371 — a decrease of more than 900 records.

Prior to its admissions of incomplete data, the health ministry asserted that the information in more than 15,000 fatality records had stemmed from “reliable media sources.” However, the ministry never identified the sources in question and Gaza has no independent media.

“The sudden shifts in the ministry’s reporting methods suggest it is scrambling to prevent exposure of its shoddy work. For months, U.S. media have taken for granted that the ministry’s top-line figure for casualties was reliable enough to include in daily updates on the war. Even President Biden has cited its numbers. Now we’re seeing that a third or more of the ministry’s data may be incomplete at best — and fictional at worst.” — David Adesnik, Senior Fellow and Director of Research

“It is important to recognize that Hamas is deeply invested in shaping the narrative that emerges from Gaza, particularly regarding the number of casualties in the war. Moreover, this control of data extends beyond the statistics provided by the Hamas-controlled health ministry, as there is also a deliberate effort to downplay the number of terrorists who have been killed by Israel in the war, potentially numbering more than 10,000.” — Joe Truzman, Senior Research Analyst at FDD’s Long War Journal

Wall Street Journal - Hamas Numbers Game with "Civilian" Death Counts and Casualty Data

Foundation for the Defense of Democracies - 5 Things to Know About the Hamas Run Gaza "Health Ministry'

The recent Al-Ahli incident further undermines the ministry’s credibility
On October 16, 2023, media outlets around the world reported rapid claims made by the Gaza Health Ministry that Israeli missiles struck the al-Ahli hospital, killing around 500 Palestinians. The U.S. intelligence community assessed that a Palestinian rocket likely caused the damage and estimated that 100 to 300 people died at the hospital, while a European official put that figure at below 50. The Washington Post and Wall Street Journal, among others, later revised their coverage and reported that evidence strongly favored a Palestinian rocket as the cause of the blast. Relatedly, the ministry’s data includes Palestinians killed by other Palestinians. In August 2022 clashes, for example, errant Palestinian rockets caused one-third of the reported Palestinian fatalities. The Israel Defense Forces estimated that nearly one-fifth of the Palestinian rockets fired at Israel during that conflict malfunctioned or otherwise fell short of their target.

The Gaza Health Ministry death tolls do not distinguish between civilians and combatants

The ministry does not distinguish between civilians and combatants in its count. Its casualty figures also do not identify the circumstances of death, making it impossible to identify terrorists who died in the initial assault on Israel or during the Israeli defensive operations that followed. Within days of the gruesome attacks of October 7, 2023, Israeli officials reported they recovered the bodies of 1,500 terrorists in Israel. The Health Ministry has not clarified whether or not these individuals are counted on its registry. Hamas’s casualty count might also include Palestinian minors and adults aiding Hamas fighters in an auxiliary capacity. Analysis from The New York Times during the 2014 Israel-Hamas war found that men ages 20 to 29 were the most overrepresented among the dead. Hamas also employs fighters above and below that range, but this is a strong indication that Israeli attacks targeted and succeeded in eliminating Hamas terrorists.

Washington Institute - Gaza Fatality Data Has Become Completely Unreliable

In the first month of the war, the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Health (MOH) in Gaza relied on its existing collection system, made up primarily of hospitals and morgues, to certify each death. Starting in early November, however, hospitals in northern Gaza began to shut down or evacuate during the Israeli ground invasion, spurring the MOH to introduce a new, undefined methodology for counting fatalities: media reports. This methodology, which the MOH has rarely acknowledged publicly, accounts for the majority of fatalities reported over the past four months, surpassing the traditional collection system.

A comparison of the two methodologies, using MOH reports and claims published by the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO), yields wildly different and irreconcilable results, indicating that the media reports methodology is dramatically understating fatalities among adult males, the demographic most likely to be combatants. This undercuts the persistent claim that 72 percent of those killed in Gaza are women and children—a problem that has worsened since it was first noted by a Washington Institute report in January.

IDF estimates it has killed 12,000 Hamas fighters. All those dead will be counted as 'palestinian civilians' by Hamas .. and probably falsely claimed to be women and children as well. The claim by Hamas that 70% of the dead are women and children is statistically impossible.

IDF Says 12000 Hamas Fighters Killed in Gaza War

The Israel Defense Forces said Monday that troops have killed some 12,000 of Hamas’s estimated 30,000 gunmen in the Gaza Strip since war erupted on October 7, after a Qatar-based official for the terror group claimed it had lost half that number — some 6,000 fighters — during the four-month-old conflict.

Hamas is also believed to have thousands of operatives who are seriously wounded and unable to fight.

Hamas is a democratically elected government, then so is the US government, or Israeli government - who are on record having committed not only acts of terrorism all over the world, but war crimes which break international law (e.g use of white phosphorus and chemical weapons).

Hamas certainly commits acts of terrorism. However, judging by how many more Palestinians have been killed by the IDF, you can argue that IDF, as a military, takes part in much more terrorism than Hamas.

The IDF doesn't suck at precision. At an 80% civilian rate, the only rational hypothesis is that Israel is targeting innocent people intentionally, because they know that the world's largest military power will back them no matter how many war crimes they commit.

Israeli society by definition and law are all military reservists. The nation needs all of its citizens to join the army due to security needs. In the light of this fact, Israeli society is not a civilian society but more of military camp. Hamas considers every citizen in Israel per Israeli law is required to join the military and fight.

Moreover, there is no proof that an Russian Israeli citizen had a family member who belongs to Palestine. That makes the law called "Right of Return" a law that allows anyone that converts to Judaism a thief that has right to steal land from Palestinian people.

According to research carried out by….Dr. Eran Elhaik of the University of Sheffield, over 90 per cent of Ashkenazic ancestors come from that converted partially Greek-originating ancient community in north-east Turkey.

New research conducted by Israeli geneticist, Dr. Eran Elhaik, suggests that most of the modern Jewish population of northern and eastern Europe – normally known as Ashkenazic Jews – are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonized what is now northern Turkey more than 2000 years ago and were then converted to Judaism, probably in the first few centuries AD by Jews from Persia.

The bible also tells about Non-Israelis whom have converted to Judism

But woe unto you, lawyers and (Pharisees - Farsis - Persian converts to Judaism, who were the) politicians, hypocrites! for ye shut up The Kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither allow ye them that are entering to go in (see Enoch 93:4-104:6).

Ester 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, wheresoever the king’s commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

Further more, Ashkenaz is grand son of Japheth, whom is Shem (Semites) brother. That basically implies that Ashkenaz are not Semites.

originally posted by: Danvero

The IDF doesn't suck at precision. At an 80% civilian rate, the only rational hypothesis is that Israel is targeting innocent people intentionally, because they know that the world's largest military power will back them no matter how many war crimes they commit.

No. The conclusion is Hamas where Israel doesn’t have munitions to waste cowers behind human shields and civilians in civilian infrastructure.

Added. Where Hanas dose nothing to separate itself from civilians, poses as civilians, and reports militant deaths as civilians.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I know you are trying to downplay the number of deaths in Gaza and argue they have been exaggerated just as every apologist and defender of the IDF does but reality is very different

www.cnn.com...

UN says total number of deaths in Gaza remains unchanged after controversy over revised data

The United Nations on Monday clarified that the overall number of fatalities in Gaza tallied by the Ministry of Health in Gaza remains unchanged, at more than 35,000, since the war broke out between Israel and Hamas on October 7.

Self-explanatory!

The Israeli and IDF propaganda machine wants to dismiss the number of dead people and dead civilians. But unfortunately for them nobody believes them and Israel has lost all support from every state in the world. They have also lost the communications war.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: Taferson

originally posted by: dothedew
Personally, I love seeing these "My sources are always correct and yours are always lying, no matter what we each cite" nonsensical $h!t slinging contests.

Both sides are horrible people, people are horrible for only defending their preferred side, the lengths you go to justify your stances are appalling, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Anyway, please continue. It's hilarious and I just sat down with my lunch.

There are some people in these threads who defend Israel in their ethnic cleansing campaign and they also give full support to Israel to kill as many civilians as possible based on the existence of Hamas.

Most posters are reasonable and don't want civilians to be killed at both sides.

There is no ethnic cleansing. Isreal could have wiped the population of Gaza off the map by now.


The deaths are from Hamas using human shields and lying about the number of dead.


If Hamas that sanctioned the murders, rape, torture, kidnapping of civilians on Oct 7 surrendered, many people would be a live.

Hamas uses human shields and started a bloody way they couldn’t win.

This is on Hamas. Stop making excuses.

That's precisely what you expect to hear from Israeli apologists and Zionists.

But reality is different from expectations and wishful thinking.

“Gas chambers and the hundreds of concentration camps which starved, tortured, and eliminated Jews by disease, is repeated today in the Gaza concentration camp — the largest concentration camp in the world

“Death chambers and ovens have been replaced in Gaza with tons of bombs that destroys all in their path. Gaza has become a death camp,” Weiss said, condemning Zionism as racist colonialism.

“Conflating Zionism and Judaism is an unforgiveable crime to the Jewish people, to the Palestinians and to humanity,”

www.greenleft.org.au...

Holocaust survivor who says Israel is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. Self explanatory.

a reply to: Mwawa

From your own source

CNN cannot independently verify the ministry’s numbers. The ministry does not distinguish between casualties among fighters and civilians.

www.cnn.com...

The number was reduced because the UN says it is now relying on the number of deceased women and children whose names and other identifying details have been fully documented, rather than the total number of women and children killed. The ministry says bodies that arrive at hospitals get counted in the overall death count.

www.cnn.com...

But it’s known the numbers are BS from the Palestinian Authority.

Again. The Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion on Oct 17. A misfire Gaza militant rocket hit the hospital parking lot and it was reported 500 people were killed.

Hamas lied that it was an Isreal air strike. Using satellite and video investigation, it was more likely there was less than 100 casualties.

A clear example of Hamas right out lying, pinning deaths on Isreal not caused by them, inflation the number of dead by a factor of at least 5.


Hamas lies. Hamas uses human shields.

originally posted by: Mwawa

That's precisely what you expect to hear from Israeli apologists and Zionists.

crimes and crimes against humanity. Self explanatory.

And yet you have Israel fighting Hamas that actually committed genocide on Oct 7, Hamas broke a cease fire to get their bloody war, its known and proven that Hamas lies, its known and proven Hamas protects itself by committing war crimes to shield itself with human shields, and it’s known Hamas changes things like schools into military targets by hiding rockets and munitions in them.