Realistic Solution to Palestinian-Isreali Conflict

a reply to: Mawdano

If you're comparing this to the current situation in Israel, there is no choice and the non-Muslim Arabs are being held as hostages. The Muslim Arabs don't care because they agree with the Islamic martyr cause.

The Valeyard is absolutely right about this one. It is a religious war where the Muslims truly believe that they have a right to the entire middle east region, including all of Israel. Jerusalem is the crown jewel for both the Muslims and the Jews.

Bottom line, there is no working solution for both to co-exist together long term in the state of Israel.

a reply to: Mawdano

Interesting solution, I don't know if this is acceptable to all conflicting parties.

Sounds like nothing is acceptable to the US and Israel at the moment. Maybe selling it to them as a human shield policy. If Israel does have a lot of kids from Gaza and looking after them reasonably well, it will make the other nations more resistant in wanting to make Israel look like Gaza.

a reply to: Deetermined2

non-Muslim Arabs are being held as hostages.

I saw Christians complaining on TV for being targeted by Israel but none said anything about not being allowed to leave. Sherin Abou Aqllah who is an Christian Palestinian Journalist was killed by IDF while she was wearing press jacket and helmet with a head-shot from Israeli sniper, she has never complained about nothing of this sort.

The Muslim Arabs don't care because they agree with the Islamic martyr cause.

Palestinian people have the right to defend themselves and defend their land.

The Valeyard is absolutely right about this one. It is a religious war where the Muslims truly believe that they have a right to the entire middle east region, including all of Israel. Jerusalem is the crown jewel for both the Muslims and the Jews.

Let them believe in whatever crap they believe in, we only care about reality of the situation. The best action people should take in such situations.

Bottom line, there is no working solution for both to co-exist together long term in the state of Israel.

Lets keep trying here until we may be able to find someone that could come up with a good solution.

a reply to: Mawdano

You're talking about a centuries old fight that has NEVER come up with a solution. Until you understand the religion, you will never understand the "reality" over there. Did you not learn anything during the decade long civil war in Syria between the Sunni Muslims and the Shia Muslims?! They aren't just fighting the Jews, they are fighting each other over their religious differences.

a reply to: Deetermined2

We are addressing the situation from average citizen standpoint. Religious debates shall take 100000 of years to solve and there is no solution to religious debates.

a reply to: Mawdano

Do you understand how ignorant that sounds? You CAN NOT remove the reality of the religious beliefs of the people for a solution. It all must be considered in, otherwise, you're just coming up with fantasies and not solutions. Average citizen standpoints don't mean squat over there. Face the reality and stop dreaming.

a reply to: Deetermined2

Okay, we need PHD in religions to include that in discussion, which we don't really possess.

I'll wait for anyone that is expert on religious issues to handle with us the aspect of religion.

Up until we find that individual, we will just look at the problem from average citizen standpoint.

a reply to: Mawdano

The radical Islamic religion believes in resistance and death as their only solutions for the region. They believe they will automatically go to heaven if they die fighting for it. Once they obtain their short term goals in the middle east, their next goal is to either convert the rest of the world to the Islamic religion or kill everyone who doesn't. It's that simple. Total conversion or death. Good luck trying to come up with a rational and realistic solution for an irrational religion and people. This is why nothing has ever worked in the past or will work in the future.

a reply to: Deetermined2

I understand importance of this point but without an expert on religion we will move into wrong direction in thinking.

Christians have been living in middle east for hundreds of years and nobody has killed them.

either convert the rest of the world to the Islamic religion or kill everyone who doesn't

I don't think this statement is accurate. There might be other points that I don't know about, so I cannot tell if all what you've said is right or wrong. That's why including religious issues won't help without having an expert on board.

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: Deetermined2



Christians have been living in middle east for hundreds of years and nobody has killed them.

either convert the rest of the world to the Islamic religion or kill everyone who doesn't

You never heard about Beirut then?

a reply to: SprocketUK

Problems happen, and misunderstandings happen. I mean as a general rule, if that was true, you shouldn't find a single Christian in the middle east. Wars could happen for various reasons. Anyway, let's keep the discussion on the topic. We have a story line, let's not go into historical religious debate. We want to find a solution from Citizen perspective.

a reply to: Mawdano

Consider me your expert. I studied it for years. The radical Muslims aren't stupid enough to attack everyone at once. Christians living in the middle east are doing so in private, just like in China, for fear of being hurt, jailed,or kicked out of the country. Conversion attempts are not allowed.

By the way, at one time you used to be able to find Hamas' Charter for membership on the internet, but with today's level of censorship, I'm betting it's next to impossible to find. The Muslim Brotherhood has one too.

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: SprocketUK

Problems happen, and misunderstandings happen. I mean as a general rule, if that was true, you shouldn't find a single Christian in the middle east. Wars could happen for various reasons. Anyway, let's keep the discussion on the topic. We have a story line, let's not go into historical religious debate. We want to find a solution from Citizen perspective.

No, it doesn't work like, that, you don't get to say something that is blatantly untrue then just move on as though it was nothing.

There is a long history of Christians being oppressed and killed and doing the same all through that area.

Let's open religious debate on (religion, faith, and theology) forum, so that all the religious people could come and figure out how religions work. Choose a good title, and I'll participate on the thread about religions.

originally posted by: chr0naut

The solution is to not play the game.

At least, not in the way and by the rules that it has been played before.

Love the Wargames reference:

Sigh, why don't we have such good movies with wholesome truly educational messages anymore? (that are also fun to watch, and not having to resort to some cheap B or indie movie)

It's actually quite compatible with Bible teachings...

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare* [“We do not wage warfare.” Lit., “we are not doing military service.” ...; Lat., non . . . mi·li·ta'mus.] according to what we are in the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God;” (2 Cor 10:3-5)

“A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [121-180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.” (The Rise of Christianity, by E. W. Barnes, 1947, p. 333) “It will be seen presently that the evidence for the existence of a single Christian soldier between 60 and about 165 A.D. is exceedingly slight; . . . up to the reign of Marcus Aurelius at least, no Christian would become a soldier after his baptism.” (The Early Church and the World, by C. J. Cadoux, 1955, pp. 275, 276) “In the second century, Christianity . . . had affirmed the incompatibility of military service with Christianity.” (A Short History of Rome, by G. Ferrero and C. Barbagallo, 1919, p. 382) “The behavior of the Christians was very different from that of the Romans. . . . Since Christ had preached peace, they refused to become soldiers.” (Our World Through the Ages, by N. Platt and M. J. Drummond, 1961, p. 125) “The first Christians thought it was wrong to fight, and would not serve in the army even when the Empire needed soldiers.” (The New World’s Foundations in the Old, by R. and W. M. West, 1929, p. 131) “The Christians . . . shrank from public office and military service.” (Editorial introduction to “Persecution of the Christians in Gaul, A.D. 177,” in The Great Events by Famous Historians, edited by R. Johnson, 1905, Vol. III, p. 246) “While they [the Christians] inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, Vol. I, p. 416.

Jesus also did not get involved in the politics of the world. He did not seek political power and he did not take sides on political issues. Did first-century Christians get involved in politics? No. Jesus’ followers obeyed his command to be “no part of the world.” (John 15:19) They followed his example and remained separate from the world’s politics. (John 17:16; 18:36) In other words, they did not play the political game either. Rather than get involved in political matters, they did the work Jesus commanded—preaching and teaching about God’s Kingdom.—Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 10:42.

Early Christians and politics—what secular history reports:

- “Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. . . . They would not hold political office.”—On the Road to Civilization—A World History, page 238.

- “There is not a shred of evidence which would allow us to think that Jesus had military/political ambitions, and . . . the same applies to the disciples.”—Jesus and Judaism, page 231.

- “To a Christian his religion was something apart from and superior to political society; his highest allegiance belonged not to Caesar but to Christ.”—Caesar and Christ, page 647.

- “[The apostle] Paul was willing to use his Roman citizenship to demand the protections of the judicial process due him, but he engaged in no lobbying on the public policy issues of the day. . . . Though they believed they were obligated to honor the governing authorities, the early Christians did not believe in participating in political affairs.”—Beyond Good Intentions—A Biblical View of Politics, pages 122-123.

- “There was a conviction widely held among Christians that none of their number should hold office under the state . . . As late as the beginning of the third century Hippolytus said that historic Christian custom required a civic magistrate to resign his office as a condition of joining the Church.”—A History of Christianity, Volume I, page 253.

a reply to: Mawdano

Sorry, but you're the one who opened the thread on a "Realistic Solution" while you refuse to look at it from a realistic standpoint. Maybe you're better off staying away from discussion on this topic if you can't put up a realistic argument on it.

a reply to: Deetermined2

We need to debate religious arguments professionally. Those who are experts on religion are there. We will ask all the needed questions there. Have healthy debate then adopt certain points and facts.

a reply to: Mawdano

Once again, you can't have a discussion about the situation in "Israel-Palestine" without including religion. If you're trying to eliminate it as part of this discussion, you might as well scrap this whole thread because it's a pointless exercise, unless you want to move it to forum that discusses fantasies.

a reply to: Deetermined2

Once again, I'm not trying to avoid this discussion. I'm trying to avoid misinformation. Most people don't understand religion. Most people spread misinformation about religion.It's not something I take lightly, if you can provide all the necessary proofs of any religious claims you make then sure include religious points.