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Verses that speak of the dead sleeping use phenomenological language. For example, Daniel 12:2 states, “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” This image is of people getting up much as a sleeper rises in the morning. The sleep being discussed is phenomenological sleep, not literal sleep (Daniel is not talking about living people who sleep on the ground). Because dead people look like they are sleeping, especially when lying on their deathbeds (and notice that people often die on beds, enhancing the sleep analogy), the Bible often uses “sleep” as a euphemism for “death.” In fact, this euphemism is common today.
In Revelation 6:9-10, John writes, “When he [Christ] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?'”
Here John sees the disembodied souls of early Christian martyrs. The fact they are disembodied is known because they have been slain. Thus disembodied souls exist. The fact they are conscious is known because they cry out to God for vengeance. Unconscious people can’t do that. Thus conscious, disembodied souls exist.
In Revelation 20:4 John sees these souls again: “Then I saw . . . the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God and who had not worshipped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
Here again we have disembodied souls (they had been beheaded). John sees them coming to life to reign with Christ–hence they are in a pre-resurrection state. Some scholars argue that this is a spiritual resurrection rather than a physical one. Even if that were so, it would only strengthen the case for conscious, disembodied souls because, after having been beheaded, they would be reigning with Christ in heaven in a disembodied state.
The Bible speaks of death as sleep because the body looks as if it’s asleep when we die, not because the soul becomes unconscious
Acts 7:59-60, Stephen, before “falling asleep” in death, cries out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” That this doesn’t support “soul sleep” is clear from Jesus’ similar remark on the cross (Lk 23:46), which didn’t preclude his telling the Good Thief who died with him, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Lk 23:43).
The Bible doesn’t teach the concept of “soul sleep.” Jesus’ parable of Lazarus and the rich man, for example, demonstrates that after death both the righteous and the unrighteous are aware of their fates (Lk 16:19-31).
The apostle Paul also teaches conscious existence after death. He speaks of his desire to depart this life and to go on to be with Christ (Phil 1:23). In 2 Corinthians 12:3-4, Paul tells of his being caught up to paradise and of his uncertainty whether this occurred “in the body or out of the body”–certainly an odd way of speaking if he didn’t believe in an immaterial soul or if he believed in “soul sleep.”
10See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
-Luke 15 Douay-Rheims Bible-
originally posted by: FlyersFan
AND a reminder that the dead are indeed awake and aware of what is going on ...
originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: whereislogic
And yet, they ARE alive and aware. Jesus told the good thief, 'today you will be with me in paradise'. And we have the miracles that the saints interceded with and have had happen. So I'm rather confident Heaven is populated and active.
originally posted by: randomuser
The idea that the dead are alive and aware is contrary to God's word.
When Jesus told the evildoer that was at his side that he would be in paradise he was not referring to an idea that Jesus and the evildoer would be in paradise the same day they died together.
When Jesus died he ceased to exist.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
originally posted by: randomuser
The idea that the dead are alive and aware is contrary to God's word.
Nope. Already posted information showing otherwise.
When Jesus told the evildoer that was at his side that he would be in paradise he was not referring to an idea that Jesus and the evildoer would be in paradise the same day they died together.
That's EXACTLY what Jesus said.
When Jesus died he ceased to exist.
That's really bad theology you've got going there.
Jesus descended to the dead. Sheol.
Then raised on the third day.
Jesus never 'ceased to exist'. That's absurd.
originally posted by: [post=27138336]randomuser[/post
You realize you just denied the entirety of the Christian faith.
If Jesus didn't die, then it was a lie that he died for our sins. And if he didn't die then he wasn't sleeping in death. And if he wasn't asleep in death, then he wasn't resurrected back to life. All of which the Bible teaches, and all of which you continue to deny.
I respect your right to deny the scripture,
see how ridiculous you sound, and come to your senses and start reasoning on things.
Nope. Jesus body died. His soul, like everyones souls, didn't cease to exist. He descended to the dead in sheol.
originally posted by: randomuser
If Jesus didn't die then the entirety of the Christian faith is a farce. You are teaching that Jesus did not die.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
AND a reminder that the dead are indeed awake and aware of what is going on ...
originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: whereislogic
And yet, they ARE alive and aware.
the state of being dead—usually used in the phrases rise from the dead or come back from the dead or return from the dead to mean to become alive again after dying
For a moment, I thought that my grandfather had come back from the dead.
They believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead.
deprived of life : no longer alive
The miraculous event involved a French nun, Sister Bernadette Moriau, who went on a pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes in 2008. She had been suffering from spinal complications which had rendered her wheelchair-bound and fully disabled since 1980. She also said she had been taking morphine to control the pain.
“I felt a [surge of] well-being throughout my body, a relaxation, warmth…I returned to my room and there, a voice told me to ‘take off your braces,’” recalled the now 79-year old nun. “Surprise. I could move,” Moriau said, noting that she instantaneously walked away from her wheelchair, braces, and pain medications.
Moriau’s case was brought to the attention of the International Medical Committee of Lourdes, who extensively researched the nun’s recovery. They eventually found that Moriau’s healing could not be scientifically explained.
The process of canonization in the Catholic Church requires two miracles. The first miracle for John Paul’s canonization was the healing of Sister Marie Pierre from Parkinson’s disease through his intercession. The second miracle healed Floribeth Mora Diaz's brain injury after an aneurysm left her terminal. FULL STORIES AT THE LINK
Cases of reported curative miracles are examined by the Catholic Church's Congregation for the Causes of Saints and a committee of medical specialists. If it can be shown the recovery fell outside the laws of nature with no scientific explanation, the prospective saint's intercession with God is considered to have brought about a cure.
In 1998, Monica Besra went to a Missionaries of Charity home in West Bengal, India, as she had a fever, headaches, vomiting, and swollen stomach. She had begun treatment for tuberculous meningitis the year before. However, the medications she'd taken — intermittently, depending on what her family could afford — hadn't kept a lump from growing in her abdomen (though some reports have described Besra as suffering from cancerous tumors, the growth could have been caused by tuberculosis). Surgery was deemed necessary, but Besra was too weak and unwell to undergo an operation.
On September 5, Besra was praying in the Missionaries of Charity chapel when she saw a light emanating from a photo of Mother Teresa. Later, a medallion that had touched Mother Teresa's body was placed on Besra's abdomen, and a sister said a prayer while asking Mother Teresa for help. Besra awoke early the next day to find her tumor had disappeared. Medical exams showed the abdominal mass was no longer there, and the doctors she'd seen agreed Besra no longer. ANOTHER MIRACLE CURE AT THE LINK